Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Moderator: Doug Marman

Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Marian on Thu May 27, 2010 5:51 am

Hi Doug,

Yes that sounds good and true to me. Although it can be extremely challenging to move beyond some beliefs, especially if one is living in an area where the collective consciousness is struggling with the beliefs you are attempting to transcend. Being awake is such an important element in these circumstances. My main concern is with when to cut ones losses and when to realise that this is infact your purpose in life. Sometimes the challenges have an enormous impact on physical health as an example.

What do you think about this?

Blessings
Marian
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Doug Marman on Mon May 31, 2010 8:07 pm

Marian,

I think it has to be very important to us before we will make the effort to leave the group consciousness and head out beyond popular thinking on our own.

This brings us back to the story of Twilight. Edward falls so deeply in love that he is willing to continually fight against his own nature for her sake. But it puts him at odds with other vampires.

This reminds me of a story I once heard: It took place a time long ago when everyone remembered who they were and why they were in this world. One day a warning came from the heavens that anyone who drank from the river would forget. However, people ignored or didn't believe the warning. One by one, they began forgetting who they were and why they were in this world.

One man had held off drinking from the river and after a while he realized that everyone else in his community had forgotten. He tried to tell them about the warning and that they once remembered who they were, but no one remembered, so they thought he was crazy and wouldn't listen to him. Since they all saw it the same way, he was the one who was wrong in their eyes. If he tried insisting he was right, he would only put his own life in danger, and his actions would scare them and worry them.

This brings us to the question of the story: If this were you and all the world had forgotten, would you too drink from the river so that you would forget as well, to be like everyone else? Or would you continue to live, remembering, while everyone else around you had forgotten?

It is the same question when we see so many people who are asleep in this world.

But if we choose to remember and wake up, the hardest part is learning that this is our experience and not for everyone else. It may not be right for others. We must let them live the life of forgetfulness they have chosen and work with them and live with them however they might be. It is only our choice that we must take responsibility for. We must give respect and space for everyone else to choose what they think is right.

My experience has been that if we get into the space of others and start thinking what know what is best for them, that is when we find health problems. But if we can fully respect everyone and only offer advice when it is wanted and realize that it is their choice to make, then the health problems go away. That's been my experience.

Was this what you were talking about? Or did I go off in another direction?

Doug.
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Marian on Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:20 am

Hi Doug,
The direction you went in IS interesting but a bit different to what I meant. However I am wondering if there is something in there for me. I will try to get my head around it.

I am wondering how I can be actively involved in creating Safer Neighbourhoods within my local community and at the same time not acknowledge that youth setting fire to buildings and terrorising the vunerable and elderly is wrong(Judging).(This is where I live). I am being approached on a regular basis to make more of a stand as the community is badly in need of community leaders. People are too afraid of the repercussions. Thus far I have managed to make some areas safer but I am worried that I am just creating more and more negative karma for myself. To put it bluntly I am going out on a limb a lot of the time.

Some of my (paid) work involves interaction with local youth and I do manage to keep detached when carrying this out as I am allowed to challenge unreasonable behaviour in this situation. It is part of the job.

I guess I am weighing up the pros and cons of really taking the bull by the horns. A part of me knows that this is the right thing for me to do. Another part (my teen self) doesn't want the responsibility.

Thanks for helping me to talk that through. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Marian
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby razon_dorado on Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:03 pm

But if we choose to remember and wake up, the hardest part is learning that this is our experience and not for everyone else. It may not be right for others. We must let them live the life of forgetfulness they have chosen and work with them and live with them however they might be. It is only our choice that we must take responsibility for. We must give respect and space for everyone else to choose what they think is right.


It touches the decision we once made for our life before we were born in this world with our specific parents/brothers & sisters etc. When I look back on my life, its kinda chaotic or splattered, Is it this what I choose to experience ..? flippin' heck what did I wanted to gain?

What is predetermined what is ...? One day, it was somewhere back in the 1830 .... I saw myself being a black slave working on a white farm in the deep south of North America. As my stand is more for the weak of the society I felt assured to be on the "right" side with this life.
Than in the very next instant I saw myself being a white rich farmer with couple of slaves as cheap labour. This made me ashamed. So I was involved in it as well? It was definitely not the expected answer - but made full sense: experience and understand both side of the story.

Currently I am working with emotional freedom exercises and realize that more and more issues came [still coming ...] up. First I did not understand - than I got more and more the feeling that those issues protected me, guided me, taught me.
Also I have the impressions that Soul can be traumatized and is behaving in such a "weird" way.

I hope I made myself clear here, well, otherwise please feedback me on the phrasing, apart of this
it is always "mind"blowing to read this forum.

Thank you so much
razon_dorada alias Carmen
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Doug Marman on Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:27 pm

Marian,

That's an interesting situation.

This is what I hear from what you wrote. If I'm getting this wrong, let me know:

You work with youth as a part of your job, and you step in from time to time to change and correct what they are doing when it is wrong. However, when you try to do this outside of work, you find it seems to bring karma into your life. So, the question is how can you help without it creating more karma?

If I'm close to what you were saying, then this is a great question.

First, the answer seems to be in your own words. By working for the government or an organization that is empowered to act on these situations, then you are acting for that power. It is not your own power, but the government or organization that is acting. You are acting as an agent. This is why your actions don't become personal karma for you.

But if you then take on something as an individual and try to fight someone else, now you are involved in a personal fight. And as you know there is always complications with that. Even when it seems as if someone is completely wrong and should be stopped. This doesn't mean we can just stop them without fighting against them and taking on karma.

So, what is the answer? Act as an agent for a higher power. Don't do something because you want to stop someone else or because you think someone else is wrong. Act for all of life, or for God, or for the good of everyone, including the person who you think is wrong. In fact, if you really believe you are doing what is best for them, they will sense this and it will change them.

My experience has been that the first thing I need to do is set aside my own personal feelings to see it from the whole. Why is this happening? What is best for everyone. Then I try to think about ideas that are not against anyone or fighting, but are somehow in the middle helping everyone.

For example, if you work with youth, can you get them to help fix the things that the other youth are damaging? Can you get youth to paint over the graffiti or repair the damage? This shows how youth can help the community. Then give them public attention for the great thing they have done. Ask the older people to show their appreciation. Create a positive cycle.

Then ask the youth who were doing damage if they would like to help with the next project. Invite them to help. You might be surprised.

These are just wild ideas, and I have no idea of the situation there, but sometimes you just need to start a positive cycle for the sake of everyone. Sometimes it means just doing something that comes from a spiritual inspiration. Ignore the damage being done and create something positive. They will stop doing it when they realize no one cares, or something more positive is happening as a result.

But the point you were making is the important one: If you are acting as an agent and doing this for the community or for all of life, then what you do doesn't become your karma. You will still find that you are changed by it, but it should become an experience of spiritual growth rather than the complications of karma.

Does that make sense?

Doug.
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Doug Marman on Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:42 pm

Razon,

Thanks for sharing your past life story. Your stories are always interesting!

I think when we feel sympathy for those who suffer, it is often because we have experienced it ourselves.

As you say, it is so easy to think how wrong others can be, until we remember when we once did the same thing. Then suddenly we feel sympathy for everyone.

That's how we get to be so smart: By making all kinds of mistakes.

So, let's give ourselves and others the freedom to make mistakes!

Thanks.

Doug.
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Marian on Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:49 am

Hi Doug,

Yes you have hit the nail on the head with a lot of what you have said. Unfortunately the area in which I live seems to be lost in some kind of dark force right now. We are looking at a third generation of unemployment, drug and alcohol addiction and all the associated problems that go along with this.

Over the past 2 years it has been difficult for me to remain detached from what is happening in the environment ,because I live in a building where some local youth gained free access to one of the flats and was using it for various activities including drugs and alcohol. You can imagine the distress this brought to the other residents in the building. A couple of weeks ago I was woken at 2a.m. and had to call the emergency services because one of the youth thought it would be a 'fun' idea to start a fire as a warning to the residents above. After confronting these people for 2 years, involving the police and the housing authorities, I have eventually managed to get the tenants evicted from the building. This has cost me on more than one level. But has left me a much stronger individual e.g. much more in touch with my personal protector aspect. Before this I was someone who protected others with a disregard for my own safety.

In the wider area (the street where I live) people are struggling on a daily basis with these kind of issues. I have reached a place where I guess I have to decide whether to help other people or bury my head in the sand. This is not an easy decision as to quote my Spiritual Teacher -

"We are personally responsible for our own state of consciousness. As Soul unfolds toward total freedom, It understands total responsibility must be accepted for every thought and action."

Thanks for your input to this situation. I will have to see how things go on a daily basis and be careful not to do things at too great a cost to myself.

Marian
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Doug Marman on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:46 am

Marian,

It sounds like a difficult situation. However, I also sense it contains spiritual experiences that you would never find anywhere else.

Some of the worst areas in a city are where people live in the shadows of others. Their own lives seem more negative because of what they don't have in comparison to others.

This gap casts a shadow over parts of a city. It is especially bad when the richest and poorest areas are side-by-side.

Sometimes it simply takes someone to bring some light into the dark shadows to create a balance. It really isn't about wealth or money as so many people think, since we can find spiritual rewards everywhere. If these same people were living in a country where they were the richest, rather than the poorest, their whole attitudes would change. It is about living with nobility, no matter what the situation.

Bringing light into your life and seeing Spirit at work in the area where you live sheds light in the neighborhood. Some fight because they don't want the shadows to leave. They know how to live and survive in the shadows, but don't know how to succeed in the light.

Seeing an example of someone who knows how to living in the light is something that many young people have never seen before.

Even though we are only responsible for our own state of consciousness, as your teacher says, this doesn't mean we are separate from the rest of life. We are connected, and the things that happen around us also belong to us as well. This is why helping others is often the best way of helping ourselves, and helping ourselves is sometimes the best way of helping others.

Good luck, and thanks for the interesting dialogue.

Doug.
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Marian on Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:47 am

Hi Doug,

I understand what you are saying Doug. I think the important element for me is to help myself first, and when I am truely honest with myself, I frequently put the needs of others first. At the end of the day there is only so much one person can do even when they are acting as a channel for Spirit. Being in the situation may be enough for now because at the end of the day - if I cannot protect and care for myself - through lack of energy, then I am not really going to be that much help to others.

Thanks for the dialogue, the Spiritual lessons I am having at the moment can seem daunting at times and it helps to have a connection on the physical level with someone who can relate to these things.

Some of the worst areas in a city are where people live in the shadows of others
Can you expand a little more on this please?

Best wishes
Marian
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Re: Giving Up The Taste of Blood

Postby Doug Marman on Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:15 pm

Marian,

Your approach makes sense.

Doug Marman wrote:
"Some of the worst areas in a city are where people live in the shadows of others"

Can you expand a little more on this please?


What I meant by living in the shadow of others is when we compare our lives to the lives of others. When this happens, we conclude that we are not as smart as others, or as pretty, or as spiritually advanced...

Paul Twitchell gave a name to this. He called it the "anti-success device", which means that when people meet others who are more successful than they are, it makes them feel like a failure. It doesn't encourage them, it discourages them. They don't like successful people because it makes them feel unsuccessful.

We see the same thing happen if we meet a famous movie star, or anyone who we look up to. It could be a spiritual leader. When we meet them, we become self-conscious, get tongue-tied, and feel completely at a lower level.

This all happens in our imagination. We should never let anyone else's life become a negative for our own.

What I've seen is that young people will often turn to crime because it is a way they can be creative and succeed at something. They don't think they can be successful compared to those who are famous and wealthy, which they see on TV or hear about on the Internet, so they become the opposite. They don't realize it but they are trying to escape the shadow of others that they have put themselves under.

No one's life can ever truly be compared with anyone else's, and we should never accept images from the world about what we should be doing, or fight against those images. Only we can know what is best for us to do, and only we can choose.

Take care.

Doug.
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